8585 for up to 3 pairs of stacked Quad ESL57
speakers. October 2006.

Contents of this page:-
Picture above of the
8585 in 2004 which has changed little since then.
Revised 2006 schematics for one channel of
integrated 8585 currently using KT90EH to give lower THD.
The Schematics
show arrangements for use with one to three pairs of Quad ESL which have been
fully restored by
John Hall of Melbourne.
Fig 1, Schematic of
one channel of 8585 amp, 2006, input and driver stages.
Fig 2, Schematic of
one channel of 8585 amp, 2006, output stage.
Tube choices, local/global NFB,
power output, output voltage levels, THD, frequency response,
output
resistance, input sensitivity, preamp, tube layout, fuses.
Fig3, schematic of the 8585 power supply,
unchanged from the 2004 amp version.
List of fuses and their location, turn
on delay, protection, re-setting, leds at front,
bias adjustment,
overheating, mains power consumption, weight.
General notes about power
output, thd measurements, nfb and pp amps.
Fig 4, Graph for power
output vs load for 4 x KT90.
Fig 5,
Graph of harmonic content for middle setting of volume
control.
Fig
6, Graph of harmonic content for maximum volume control
setting.
Fig 7, Graph of 3 THD curves of 8585 THD for
comparisons.
Fig 8,
Graph of harmonic content for 12AU7 input preamp
stage.
Fig 9, Schematic of 8585 amp as
supplied in 2004.
Fig 10, Graph
of THD for 2004 version of 8585 with 4, 6 and 8 ohm
loads.
Fig 11, Schematic of protection circuit and
explanation.
Fig 12, Graph for
loadline analysis for ONE pair of KT90 used with 12.5% CFB.
Step by step
explanation of how to draw load lines.
Basics about negative feedback explained,
push pull operation and effect on
distortions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Use of the 8585 amp without reading all these
notes is possible but
YOU MUST READ ABOUT THE BIAS
ADJUSTMENT AND FAULT INDICATION
OR YOU WILL HAVE UNWANTED
INTERRUPTIONS TO YOUR MUSIC.
THE REMOVAL OF THE BOTTOM COVER
OR TOP TRANSFORMER
COVERS EXPOSES ANY PERSON TO
POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS
AND LETHAL VOLTAGES,
SO PLEASE DON'T DO
IT!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fig
1,

Fig
2,
8585 General
Description.
The basic design of the push-pull 8585 was conceived in
1995, following several years of trials with
various PP topologies to get
the most accurate, dynamic, and subjectively pleasing sound,
along with the
best measurements possible with the least use of corrective circuitry
known
as global NFB.
The fundamental output stage circuit design of the 8585 is
based on the renowned Acoustical Connection
of beam tetrodes invented about
60 years ago and incorporated in Quad II amplifiers designed by Peter Walker and
in the much later Quad 40 amps with a similar design by Andy Grove.
The
quality of the 8585 output transformers surpasses anything built for Quad
amplifiers.
The October 2006 version 8585 is an integrated
amplifier, with 6 switched line level inputs,
balance control, line level
SET preamp amp, and volume control.
Tube Choices
Incremental improvements since 1995 evolved the present fine sounding
amplifier.
There are presently ( October 2006 ) 4 x KT90 output tubes per
channel, but the circuit allows the use of all the main octal based output
tubes, such as 6V6, 6L6, 5881, EL34, 6CA7, KT66, KT88, KT90, and 6550.
However, only the 6L6GC, 5881, KT66, KT88, and KT90 are able to be plugged
in and biased to suit the existing circuit.
The use of 6V6, EL34 and
6CA7 are usable, but require minor alteration to the circuit to ensure the
correct grid bias voltage these 3 tube types and for 6V6 the
anode and
screen supply must be re-wired to provide an anode supply of no more than
+350V
and a screen supply of about +300V.
Local output stage cathode
feedback and B+ Regulation.
The output stage for each channel has 4
output tubes, two for each side of the push-pull circuit,
and these are
configured to allow 12.5% of the anode to cathode signal voltage to be fed
back
locally to the output tube cathodes from a tertiary winding on the
OPT.
With a 5 ohm load, the 12.5% of local NFB equates to about 7 dB of local
NFB.
The reason for applying two lots of negative feedback, one lot in
the form of local cathode FB in the output stage
and the other globally
is because the local FB in the output stage has a very favourable effect on the
spectral content
of distortion harmonics which are reduced to lower levels
than triode or ultralinear connection
but without paying a penalty of
requiring too high a drive voltage to the output stage tube grids.
Less
global NFB is then required to make up a total of less than 20dB and it is thus
more possible to achieve without
requiring such critical stabilizing
techniques.
If the output tubes were connected in pure beam tetrode mode the
harmonic spectra would remain more
complex and the amplifier would be more
difficult to stabilise.
The anode supply is +500v using an 800 VA toroidal
power transformer,
silicon diodes, and large value capacitors, and a choke
filter.
The screen supply is +325v, and actively shunt regulated.
The
output tubes have fixed grid bias voltage applied, once the level of cathode
current is adjusted, see below.
The output stage is driven by a
"long tail pair" differential amp using EL84/6BQ5 strapped as triodes and
supplied with DC via a centre tapped choke and with 8.2k from each end of the
choke to the EL84 anodes.
(A choke is a winding of wire around special grain
oriented silicon steel, ( GOSS ) and it has high resistance to signal currents,
but allows direct current to flow easily).
The novel and little used choke
loading method in all my PP amps reduces dynamic signal current change in the
EL84 to about 1/3 the usual level with a pure resistance supplying dc to the
tube and the loads seen by the EL84 are mainly only the pair of 100k bias
resistors
to each side of the PP circuit. Thus the EL84 are operating with a
load of about 25kohms,
well above what might otherwise be used in a power amp
using such tubes so
there is a very low level of harmonic and
intermodulation distortion, since the higher the load on triodes, measured in
ohms, the lower the thd becomes.
In this case, the choke was found to reduce
thd about 3 times, or 10 dB,
compared to conventional circuits using cheaper
dc carrying resistance loads.
Global and Local
NFB
The input stage of the power amp is a 12AU7 with both halves
paralleled.
The dc supply to this input stage is via a pair of 100k resistors
in parallel
which means that although the anode voltage change is up to
about 7Vrms, there is
not a huge anode current change in the parallel
triodes.
The 12AU7 is set up as a single ended triode and there is 12 dB of
"global" NFB from the output transformer secondary applied to the cathode via a
low resistance network.
At clipping the amp requires about 2Vrms applied to
the 12AU7 input grid
and there is 1.5Vrms of fed back voltage applied at the
cathode and the difference between
the input voltage and fed back voltage is
0.5Vrms and this is amplified to make up
to about 7Vrms to power the
following Long Tail Pair driver stage ahead of the output stage.
This basic
method of globally applied NFB has been used for 60 years at least,
and there
is a total of 19dB of NFB applied consisting of 7dB of local output stage
NFB
which reduces the output impedance of the output tubes to about 2
ohms,
then there 12dB of global NFB reduces the 2 ohms down to about 0.4
ohms
which results in a damping factor of greater than 10 for a 5 ohm
load.
The distortions in pure beam tetrode connected tubes is reduced by the
output stage NFB by about 12dB and then the global NFB further reduces the
distortions by another 12 dB.
Without connections of NFB the amplifier
would be useless because the output resistance
would be many times the
speaker impedances and the distortions would be
both audible and
objectionable.
Power Output
The
output power is 84 watts into 5 ohms at less than 0.3% thd which is at the onset
of overload or clipping, and is class AB1 with approximately an initial 20
watts of pure class A.
There can be 57 watts watts into 8 ohms at less than
0.2% thd, class AB1, with
the first 40 watts being pure class A.
Refer to
graph BELOW for power output vs load to examine the maximum power output
levels possible.
Maximum Vrms signal
levels into loads with the 3 output terminals strapped together are as
follows:-
33 ohms, 18W, 24.4Vrms, 34.5 peak volts,
15 ohms, 32W, 22Vrms,
31.1Vpk,
8 ohms, 57W, 21.3Vrms, 30.2Vpk,
5 ohms, 84W, 20.5Vrms,
28.9Vpk,
2 ohms, 112W, 15Vrms, 21.21vpk,
Three pairs of Quad ESL will
have an impedance varying from
11ohms at 60Hz to 0.6ohms at
18kHz.
This may seem like an impossible speaker impedance to drive but
90% of the power in music is within the 60Hz to 3kHz band where
Z is
between 11 and 3 ohms, and only a tiny amount of power
is needed to produce
frequencies above 3 kHz, and since the 8585 has
a power ability equal to 4
Quad II amplifiers in parallel and considering that stacking
the Quads will
increase their power sensitivity approximately 3dB, then the
8585 will not
have no more difficulty drive 3 pairs of ESL57 than a single pair of Quad II
amps
will have driving one pair of ESL57 which are regarded as a compatible
match of amp and
speaker since both were designed in the same era by the
brilliant Peter Walker.
Even with just a 0.6 ohm load there is 60 watts
of power available from the 8585
which means that the output current ability
without clipping is about 10Arms, or 14 amps peak.
THD
At any load
above 3 ohms,
1 watt of power, thd < 0.02%,
4 watts, thd <
0.03%,
16 watts, thd < 0.1%.
80 watts, 5 ohms, thd < 0.3%,
See
the Graphs BELOW with following notes for Harmonic Products to view levels of
THD with 5 ohms.
Frequency
Response.
The frequency response for 1 kHz and 5 ohms is from 14 Hz to
65 kHz, at 80 watts, limited by saturation of the OPT at LF, and bandwidth
limiting at HF.
The response widens from about 5 Hz to 68 kHz at ordinary
loud listening levels.
With a test load comprising and RC series network of
0.5ohms in series with 6 uF and with 5 ohms shunting the
RC network there is
no peaking in the response.
Pure capacitance loads of any value between 6uF
and 0.1 uF may be connected
across the output terminals with the HF response
showing less than 1dB of peaking at 20kHz, and
not more than 6dB of peaking
between 20kHz and 200kHz, so the amplifier is stable
with any value of C
load.
Tests were done on C loads at low output voltage levels of 1Vrms output
to ensure that the
diminishing impedance of C loads at HF did not cause the
active protection circuit to activate
because of excessive dc anode current
draw from the power supply.
For example a 2uF capacitor has 2.48 ohms of
purely reactive impedance at 32kHz and
if the output voltage level was
raised to equal that with 2.5 ohms of pure resistance at
clipping at 1 kHz,
the amp will shut down within a couple of seconds.
Speaker and Amplifier
Output Impedance.
Any type of load is permissible, including dynamic,
ribbon or ES speakers,
and the amp will drive any load above 3 ohms for an
average power level of 5 watts,
which allows for peaks in the music to be 50
watts or more.
There are 3 pairs of output terminals arranged so there is 0.6
ohms series resistance
from each output to the common internal connection at
the amp so that
if 3 pairs of Quad ESL are connected with each pair taken to
each pair of output
terminals then each pair of speakers is fed via its own
separate 0.6 ohm resistance.
The output source resistance in series with the
ESL is thus the amplifier Rout
of 0.4 ohms plus the 0.6 ohms giving a total
of 1 ohm which is recommended for Quad ESL57
in order to get a flat response
to 20kHz.
The 8585 will thus mimic the action of the Quad II amp but give
greater stability
and lower distortions.
For normal speakers where the
lowest amplifier resistance may be desired, all three
active terminals to
each channel may be strapped with a wire beneath the 3 active binding
posts,
and thus Rout = 0.4 ohms + 0.2 ohms = 0.6 ohms which
gives a damping factor
of 10 with a 6 ohms speaker.
Sensitivity
With
the volume control turned to the middle 12 o'clock position, approximately
4.9Vrms is needed for clipping power of 80 watts into 5 ohms which will
produce
an ear deafening level of approximately 104dB SPL using 3 pairs of
stacked Quad ESL57
based on being able to obtain 86dB using 1 watt at one
meter with one ESL speaker from one channel.
At 80 watts the amp makes 20Vrms
into 5 ohms and it does not exceed the voltage rating for the speakers.
The level with 1Vrms of input which can be expected from a CD player
will reduce the output voltage to 4Vrms and a power output of 3.2 watts per
channel
which would give an SPL of 94dB with the 6 stacked Quad ESL.
The
gain of the internal preamp has been reduced to only
2.6 times or 9dB between
its input and output so that excessive gain will not be a problem, yet there
will always be a high enough power ceiling, regardless of the speaker variety
used.
The gain of the preamp was somewhat carefully chosen because there
is no
ability to delete the preamp from the signal path.
In-built
Preamp
The 12AU7 integrated preamp ahead of each power amp uses both
halves of the twin triode paralleled, and there is an active constant
current source for the dc carrying load component
to reduce the THD to tiny
amounts regardless of the input levels which can be up
to 20Vrms before the
preamp clips.
Even when the output level of the preamp is at 10Vrms with its
input at 3.8vrms, THD < 0.3%,
and at normal levels where a CD player
produces 1vrms on very high level signals
the THD < 0.06%, and nearly all
second harmonic and thus not in any way
able to destroy the musical
fidelity.
See the graph of THD for 8585 input preamp which shows
the
2H, 3H, 4H, 5H and 6H as they rise above the noise floor
between 0.4Vrms
output and 10Vrms output.
The preamp has a mild 12dB amount of shunt NFB
between its anode output
and grid input to ensure channel gain remains
constant and well balanced
and to reduce THD and noise and Rout.
The
input selector switch is a 2 pole x 6 position silver plated wafer rotary switch
supplied by RS components, the balance control pot is a cermet type
from
Farnell, and the gain control pot is a dual 50k stereo Alps "Black" carbon track
pot which has been used in numerous quality amps for the last 30 years at
least
and which is available at RS and Farnell Components.
Tube Layout
The
four front tubes are 12AU7.
The next row of four tubes from the front are
EL84 or 6BQ5, which are exactly the same type
of tube, but with different
commonly used type numbers.
The rear eight tubes are the eight matched octal
output tubes.
Fuse Replacement and
Home
Service
The only fuse which should be replaced by the
owner is the 3 amp slow blow mains fuse near the IEC
input mains chassis plug
at the rear of the amp.
The amp must have the mains cable removed from the
amp before fuse replacement.
There are other
fuses within the amp and placed close to the appropriate circuit
point,
and none should be replaced by the non technically trained owner, and
without
a technician examining why the the fuse blew.
See the list of
fuses below the power supply schematic, Fig3.
Fig 3 Power supply for 8585.

Fuse
locations and sizes
Mains fuse =
3A slow blow, mounted in rear panel.
Anode dc supply fuses, two 1A slow blow,
one 0.25A slow blow; access by removing bottom cover.
Bias supply fuse, one
0.7A or 1A slow blow; access by removing middle transformer cover on top of the
amp.
Heater filament dc supply, two 3A slow blow; access by removing middle
transformer cover on top of the amp.
Turn on
delay
There is a short turn on delay of a few seconds, only to prevent
excessive input current
at the moment of switch on, and a relay click should
be heard 4 seconds after turn on.
Protection
The
amp has active protection to prevent one or more of the output tubes from
conducting more than 3 times the 33 mA of idle current for longer than 4
seconds.
If this ever occurs, a second relay in the power supply will turn off the main
anode dc supply to
the output tubes, leaving the amp turned on with heaters glowing,
but
unable to make any sound.
Without any anode current the amp cannot overheat
any part of itself
During this "fault" condition, the two red leds at the
front of the amp will glow
to indicate the fault condition.
Re-setting the amp
after tripping the protection during an accident such as turning up the
volume
with shorted speaker leads is achieved by waiting 20 seconds after
turning off the amp and
then turning it back on.
The leds at the
front also indicate the bias condition of the amp.
When the bias of
each output tube is correctly adjusted, the two leds will remain
extinguished.
A small variation of bias balance between the two halves of the
PP circuit of each channel
will cause the leds to light up.
During
normal operation, the leds should remain extinguished, but during
extraordinarily loud music, the leds may flash at times due to some
temporary
bias current imbalance. Should noticeable distortion be heard, and
should the leds flash at
an unusually low gain setting, something is wrong
with the speaker leads, ie, they may be shorted together, or there may be a
fault within the amplifier.
A schematic of the protection circuitry
is further down the page in Fig 11.
Biasing
The amp
uses fixed bias. This is misleading, since if it was fixed, how come
it has
to be adjusted?
Well, once adjusted to the correct level, it remains fixed at
the adjusted level for
at least 3 months, and sometimes for many years
without further adjustment being required.
And there are 8 output tubes which
EACH require separate adjustment.
All the 12AU7 and EL84 are automatically
biased and need only be checked during
a yearly routine check up.
Output Tube Bias
should be checked every 3 months by a prudent owner!!!
You will
need a simple voltmeter and flat bladed screw driver with a shaft at least 150mm
long.
Bias adjustment can be done without moving the amp from the equipment
stand.
There are 4
test points on each side of the front panel, with each test point corresponding
to
an adjust screw on the top of the chassis nearby and corresponding to each
output tube,
when viewed left to right.
Each test point is a recessed
brass plated phillips head screw.
It is safe to perform the bias
adjustment.
The positive red lead probe of the volt meter is held against the
recessed phillips screw head and the negative black probe is
plugged into
the hole for the black lead probe, or simply held against the chassis.
The long flat bladed screw driver is used to reach down through the mesh
tube cover to
turn the shafts of the 8 bias adjustments.
Do NOT attempt to
turn the recessed phillips head screws; these are not adjustment
screws.
The voltmeter is set to a low range of direct voltage, say the 2v
range, and is used to measure the first test point's voltage and the adjacent
screw on top of the chassis adjusted in either
direction so the test voltage
measures 0.7V dc.
Although slightly awkward, an untrained person may hold the
test leads of the
voltmeter with red lead to the test point, and the other
hand can adjust the appropriate screw.
Make sure that the red lead probe is
not shorting the recessed contact screw to the chassis.
When replacing a
tube or all tubes, always check the bias quickly of all tubes after turn
on
and turn the bias voltage measure to lower than 0.7Vdc if any read
higher.
Allow the amp to warm its tubes for 5 minutes and then set the
bias of all 8 test points
slowly and accurately to 0.7V dc from 1 to 8.
After 10minutes, repeat the bias setting from 1 to 8 since the
adjustments
of one or more tubes will affect the setting of the
remainder.
After 20 minutes, repeat the bias adjustment again.
Both the
leds in the front panel should both remain extinguished, since the balance in
both channels will be
correct because there is equal current in each
tube.
If one of both the leds remains alight after the bias adjustment, you
have done it wrong,
and turned the wrong screw whilst measuring the wrong
test point, or you have a problem
in the amplifier.
When correct,
*all* test points should each measure 0.7V dc between test point and
chassis.
The relative rotation position of each adjust screw will be
slightly different with new tubes, and as the tubes age, the rotation
position will vary increasingly.
If it is impossible to obtain enough
adjustment screw rotation to get a 0.7V dc reading for any output
tube,
it is possible that this tube has a fault, and it may need
replacement.
Overheating?
The
output tubes are those most likely to ever cause problems if they overheat.
The
output tubes run at about 150C temperature at the top of the glass, and each
output tube
has its filament power liberated as heat, about 10 watts, and
its anode power input
of about 18 watts, making a total of 28 watts.
An
orange glow should be seen at the centre of the small innermost cathode
electrodes within the larger dark grey coloured
outer metal box anode
electrode, seen easily just inside the glass envelope.
This larger electrode
within each tube should never appear to glow red hot itself.
If it does glow,
there is a fault in the tube operation, and a hand held above the tube
will
feel that it is running hotter than the tubes around it.
Such overheating
should be reported to the maker, but the protection circuit has been
designed
to turn off the amp before the tube anode glows red hot due to
too much
current flow.
Power
Consumption
Highest power consumption occurs when the tubes used are
6550 or KT88
which have 1.8A rated filaments, and when the amp is working
heavily into classAB.
But the power consumption will vary very little during
ordinary use with average power below 5 watts.
Power
consumption from the mains is as follows, with KT88/6550.
Output filaments, 8
x 6.3Vac x 1.8A = 91W.
Input 12AU7 filaments, 4 x 12.6Vdc x 0.15A =
8W.
Driver EL84/6BQ5 filaments, 4 x 6.3Vac x 0.8A = 20W.
B+ supply to
anode supply, 510Vdc x 0.4A = 204W.
Bias voltage supply, -132Vdc x 0.020A =
3W.
Sub Total power = 326W. Allow winding losses of 6% plus
extra input
power for AB operation with music up to occasional clipping = additional 74
watts.
Total mains input power = 400W.
Heavy?
The
amplifier need a sturdy support bench and should be handled and moved only when
turned off and with great care.
Never drop the amp to a hard surface because
the weight of the transformers
may deform the steel sheet metal cases or
aluminium/brass chassis.
Due to the weight of tube amps, lifting them around
can produce a back ache if not done correctly.
Always call a friend to help you move the 8585, I am
sure he'll enjoy
a listen afterwards.
GENERAL NOTES ABOUT 8585 POWER
OUTPUT,
DISTORTION MEASUREMENTS, ACTIVE PROTECTION,
and some basic
information on NFB
and PUSH-PULL amp
operation.
The available undistorted power power
varies with load. For the 8585 the recommended loading
for the frequencies
between 100Hz and 800Hz should average 3 ohms or more.
Fig 4.

The
graph curve shows the power output at less than 1% THD for loads between 0 ohms
and 33 ohms.
Harmonic Distortion
products in the 8585.
There are 3 following graphs with comments
regarding harmonic distortion production.
While both channels were tested,
the results shown are for the right channel only since the curves for each
channel
were remarkably similar.
Fig 5.

Fig
5 shows the distortion components of 2H to 7H where relevant, ie, as they
increase with output voltage levels.
There is considerable 2H produced in
comparison to the 3H at below 4 watts which would cover the
average
listening levels of 99% of the population. The amount is all less than 0.03%,
and lower
than an SE amp, and utterly negligible.
Notice that the dreaded
higher number 4H, 5H, 6H, and 7H harmonics do not appear significantly until the
amp is being worked above about 37 watts, or 13.5Vrms of output, where they try
to rise above the 0.005% level.
Fig 6.

Fig
6 shows the difference in harmonic products produced when the input
preamp
has its output minimised by turning up the volume control to
maximum.
This gave less 3H and more 2H especially at high levels, and Fig 5
& 6 show the effects of 2H cancellations
when the preamp is used to
produce more voltage before the volume control attenuation.
I first thought
perhaps the preamp 2H would add to the power amp 2H produced in the
V2 12AU7
but this appears not to be the case, so the 2H is otherwise being produced in
the power amp
to what i expected.
The point is that the 2H is a small
amount of 2H for any tube amp.
In PP amps the 3H is usually the most dominant
but in this design of PP amp the 3H
is very low compared to many other
designs using such low bias levels.
Being able to obtain less than
0.014% of 3H at 4 watts is a good result for any tube power amp,
and
regardless of the volume control setting.
In both Fig 5 & 6 the higher
order harmonics are negligible at ordinary very loud
levels.
Fig 7.

Fig
7 has 3 curves drawn above for THD for the 8585 with KT90 output tubes and
biased lightly with Ia at only 33mA per tube. Curve A & B were plotted in
2006 after changing from the 2004 schematic for the input preamp.
Curve C is
derived from the 2004 measurements for 4,6,8 ohms in Fig 10 below, and for a 5
ohm load
and with volume control at maximum to ensure the input preamp
creates the least THD possible.
Curve A is for the 2006 above amp
schematic and with the volume control set at the middle position.
This means
that any incoming signal is amplified 2.6 times, then reduced in level by a
factor of 0.156
times by the volume potentiometer.
The curve A was
plotted by varying the input signal at 1 kHz until the amplifier clipped
at just over 20Vrms into 5 ohms.
Curve B was plotted with the same
increasing input signal but with the volume control set to the
maximum level
so to reduce the amount of amplification by the V1 12AU7 preamp
and negate
its probable effect on the thd measurements.
Notice that there is a
difference between thd levels of curve A and B and it is due largely
to
cancellation effects of the second harmonic distortions produced in the
preamp and power amp.
Curve C is taken from measurements made on the
older schematic presented in 2004.
There is not a huge difference between any
of the curves, but there is a consistent
reduction of THD of at least
6dB between the 2004 and 2006 versions of the amp,
ie, between the curve C
and A respectively.
This is mainly due to a reduction of 2H in the V1 12AU7
preamp by using a CCS load for the anodes
and due to 12dB of shunt NFB to
reduce the 12AU7 gain.
The older 2004 preamp relied only upon about 4dB of
current NFB from the unbypassed 1.5k cathode
R of the V1 12AU7.
At low
levels the reduction in distortion due to a large increase in NFB does not
result in an exactly proportionate THD reduction when the preamp is tested
with the power amp.
Fig 8.

Fig
8 shows the THD result for the V1 12AU7 triode line level preamp built into the
8585.
I measured the harmonics up to 10vrms output only because when testing
high output resistance
circuits above 600 ohms my test gear has to use a
high input impedance low distortion buffer between the device under test
and
the analyser whose maximum input voltage is limited to 10Vrms.
There is no
point in measuring output voltages above 10Vrms because it is
extremely
unlikely the input preamp would ever have to produce more than this
voltage level.
It is of course capable of about 60Vrms of output.
As can
be seen the THD at 2.6 Vrms of anode output which would be a high level from a
CD player input signal,
THD = 0.04%, and mainly 2H with ALL other harmonics
below the noise floor.
There are those who despise and discourage the use
of NFB to reduce noise, output resistance
and distortion on the grounds that
a small amount of it such as I have used around this preamp
will
significantly raise the higher order harmonic products above the 2H to become a
serious sonic pest.
There is NO evidence that they are correct. I am
convinced that 3H or other harmonics
all at below the 0.001% level do not have any effect on the sound quality at
all.
Tubes do have some magic though, and it isn't spoiled by the
presence of excessive distortion!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The
older 2004 schematic for one channel of the 8585 amp is included here as Fig 9
for reference.
Part numbers used in Fig 9 have no similarity to numbers used
in Fig 1 and Fig 2 above.
Fig
9.

Fig 9 above
is the 2004 schematic of the 8585
for the record
Fig 10.
Fig 10 is the THD measured in 2004 with
the 2004 schematic of Fig 9.
Notice that even without the improvements to the
input preamp section of the amp the THD
is below 0.1% for any load above 4
ohms and any power below 30 watts.
The further analysis of the THD spectra in
2006 in Figs 6 & 7 shows that there are very small
and insignificant
amounts of high numbered harmonic content above 3H.
The thd measurements were taken with Ia =
40mA at idle per each output tube.
Should the bias Ia be increased to 60mA,
the thd into 4 ohms which is the worst would be reduced from 0.04%
at 4 watts
to 0.03%. The best fidelity is gained by using loads above 4 ohms.
It is
thought that this reduction of thd by biasing more heavily into class A would
not be audible,
and not worth the cost of wearing out the tubes sooner, and
dissipating an extra 76 watts of heat within the amplifier.
The 2006 version
of the amp measures better than the 2004 curves indicate yet the idle bias
current levels are
slightly lower than the 2004 levels.
Protection
circuit.
Fig
11

Fig 11 shows the schematic on a circuit board under
the chassis about 150mm x 100mm with the above circuit to be able to make this
amp well behaved.
Signals from each output tube cathode of L and R
channels are fed to a pair of differential amps.
The K1, K2, and K3, K4
signals are from of each side of the PP circuit. Considering K1, K2, Left
channel,
the two cathode signals are applied through R1, D1, and R2, D2
to then be applied through 4k7 R3
and to the base of Q1.
A 100uF cap
filters out nearly all the ac signal from the cathodes, and only the dc signal
is applied to the Q1/Q2 differential amplifiers.
The highest dc signal from
K1/K2 is what determines the dcV at the Q1/Q2 bases.
When all bias currents
are correctly adjusted in each output tube, the dc voltages at Q1/Q2 bases will
be very close to equal but should one tube vary its current by more than about
+/- 10mA, there will be a dc change to Q1/Q2 inputs, and this will be amplified
to produce a difference in collector voltages, and thus turn on the led through
D4 to D7 diodes.
This will tell an owner immediately if there is a bias
problem.
Diodes D3, D9, Q14, D20 from each of the base
inputs of all 4 bjts Q1 to Q4 are taken to a common rail
which detects the
highest dcV being applied to any base input.
The voltage on this rail is
applied to Q7 emitter follower buffer base through R22.
Should the output of
Q7 emitter rise to cause more than 0.8Vdc at the SCR gate, it will latch on and
the protection relay will open to cut the HT on the power transformer.
Turning the amp off then on after 20 seconds will
reset the amp, but if the problem causing the excess cathode
current
re-appears, then the HT will be shut down again.
With the shut
down, both leds are turned on through D8 and D19.
Q5 and Q6 act in a 4 second delay circuit to shunt
R41 on the power supply schematic which limits the current input to the main B+
caps at turn on. after 4 seconds the surge in charge currents when the relay
closes to bring the B+ up to its maximum is slightly less than the initial
surge.
This allows a more sensitive mains fuse to be
used.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Negative Feedback
explained, NFB
Negative feedback occurs in many systems employed by
men and women in their daily lives.
There is even NFB used in principle in
the toilet. Every time you flush the loo,
the water empties from the small
tank on the wall, and the water then begins to flow back into the tank to refill
it.
There is a float in the tank which sends a message via a lever to the
valve controlling the input flow of water.
When the water level raises the
float, the lever sends a message to the valve to turn off the water, and the
level of the water is cut off.
Thermostats for air-conditioning work in the
same way; a temperature sensitive device
reads the temperature, and if too
cool it turns the heater on, and too hot
it turns on a cooler.
The message
from float lever or thermostat is called feedback, and negative feedback is
where that fed back message is applied in a way which opposes the action of the
input message to which is it compared.
With all audio amps, there is
always a slight error signal created by the action of the
electronics.
Nothing is perfect.
All amplifiers have two available input ports to which
signals may be applied to cause a
signal change at the ONE output
terminal.
nearly all amplifiers have what is called a "global negative
feedback network"
which usually consists of a simple pair of
resistors.
Such a "resistance dividing circuit" creates a fixed fraction of
the output voltage and
allows it to be compared electronically with a
similar level of input voltage at the front end of an amp, and then the
difference between the two voltages is amplified by the rest of the
amplifier.
At clipping levels in the 8585, there is 2Vrms applied to the
power amp input grid port
at V2, the power amp input 12AU7.
1.5Vrms of
negative feedback signal is derived from the 20Vrms output signal via a 680 ohms
plus 50 ohm resistance divider and applied to the
V2 12AU7 cathode.
Both
signals are the same phase, ie, both travel positively and negatively but they
are merely slightly different amplitudes, but have opposite effects on the
output voltage of the amp.
A +ve going signal at the grid causes a +ve
going signal at the output, but a +ve
going signal at the cathode causes a
-ve going signal at the output.
Thus the grid input is called the
non-inverting input, and the cathode is called the
inverting input.
So
the difference between input and feedback voltage is 0.5Vrms,
and since the
8585 has a voltage gain = 40, the 0.5vrms is amplified to make the
20Vrms we
see at the output.
But the fed back voltage is a fraction of the output
voltage = 1.5 / 20 = 0.075,
so where a distortion voltage at the output
occurs of say DVrms, it is divided down
to 0.075Dvrms and applied to the
12AU7 cathode and this is amplified MINUS 40 times because of the inversion
effect.
Now -40 x 0.075DVrms = -3.0Vrms.
But we KNOW there is only
+1Vrms of distortion at the output; it is what we would measure, so how come
there is also -3Vrms also present by the above reasoning??????
It is because
that without any NFB applied, ie, the feedback loop is removed,
only 0.5vrms
need be applied to the grid to get 20Vrms at the output
PLUS 4Vrms of
distortion.
So with the NFB loop connected, the -3DVrms subtracts from
the +4DVrms to leave just 1DVrms present with the NFB connected.
The
VOLTAGE gain without NFB is called the "open loop gain " and in the 8585 = 20V /
0.5V = +40, and with NFB connected the VOLTAGE gain is called the "closed loop
gain"
and = 20V / 2.0V = 10.
This difference between the input signal
from a CD player and the
signal fed back is called the "error signal"
because it contains an amplified version of the error signal which is 180
degrees out of phase with the error signal naturally created by the
amplifier
when it has no NFB circuit included.
The "error" within the error signal is a
self opposing signal which may
correct an unflat F response, reduce output
resistance, reduce phase shift,
or reduces noise within the elements in the
amp enclosed by the loop of NFB.
The arrangement acts
simultaneously around the circuit except at extremes of
frequencies outside
the audio band, ie, below 10Hz and above 20kHz.
The reason why its called
negative feedback doesn't mean its bad feedback.
It means a negatively phased
signal is created in the amp to cancel the positively phased distortion
signals that occur without any such NFB loops connected.
It used to be called
"inverse" feedback.
There is both positive and negative feedback and
current or voltage feedback.
And books have been written about it, and deeper
explanation won't fit into this very
brief description.
Push Pull action and
Distortion
Push Pull amps have inherently low distortion even without
any use of NFB at all.
If one imagines two men each side of a log trying to
cut it in half with a long bush saw,
their motion is smooth and regular with
one man pulling, and the other pushing
the saw, and the individual motional
irregularities of one man is cancelled by the other man's
similar
irregularities.
One man using the saw will tend to pull the saw with more
force than he can push it,
so the cutting power delivered to the log is
uneven for each half of the cutting cycle.
This is like the second harmonic
distortion in electronic sine waves where the top
half of a sine wave has a
different amplitude or height than the bottom half with respect to the centre
point about which the wave moves.
The irregularities of the two men's
combined action when cutting tends to give equal
power reductions at the end
of the saw's motion, so it is as if
there is a flattening of each +ve and -ve
peak of the sine wave, and this is akin to
third harmonic distortion in an
electronic sine wave.
The power in a push-pull circuit is liberated into
the load in two ways simultaneously.
Power liberated in a load resistance =
load voltage change x load current change.
The power liberated is mainly
heat, but about 3% of the power is liberated as
audio energy into the air of
the room, and that energy is converted to heat
as it is absorbed by
furnishings etc.
The efficiency of most audio speakers is appallingly low,
but not much
acoustic energy is required for our hearing which is very
efficient.
The use of horn speakers can increase speaker efficiency to
perhaps 40%,
but most speakers give less than 4%.
Consider a class A
push-pull circuit using just two tubes.
In one output tube, when it is
"pulling", there is increasing or positive current flow change
and negative
going voltage to one input of the push pull output transformer,
and the
product of the two changes makes one contribution of watts to the total output
power.
Meanwhile the other output tube "pushes" and has reducing or negative
current change and positive going voltage at its input of the OPT, and the
product of these changes make an
equal contribution to the total output
power.
The two actions of "push" and "pull" occur exactly
simultaneously,
and the resulting distortion is very low due to cancellation
of
oppositely phased even numbered distortion currents in each
tube.
The two halves swap push and pull roles as the signal swings
positively and negatively
each side of zero volts.
This principle has
been used since about 1910, and it confuses all non technical people, although
two kids on a see-saw are using the principles of push pull action without
knowing what it is, at least until they grow up and study physics.
The
complementary contribution to the output power is enabled by the push pull
output transformer designed to take the oppositely phased signals from two
tubes,
wheras the SE OPT is designed to accept only one signal from one
tube
with only one phase of signal.
The driver stage of the 8585 has
very low distortion, and the two input SET stages also
are set up for best
linearity, and contribute a negligible amount of even order
thd, thus
allowing the low measureable thd seen in these amps, without using a high amount
of NFB.
Loadline
analysis for one pair push-pull KT90 with 12.5% CFB.
Fig 12.

This maze of lines and curves is not a determined
attempt to confuse everyone!
But any novice will be challenged so I suggest
those should read the basics in the
Radiotron Designer's Handbook, 4th Ed,
1955, but I have provided a step by step
explantation for this example below
.
All the tube characteristic dynamic anode
resistance ( Ra ) data curve lines for each and every value of Eg do not need to
be displayed to find the limits of power produced by a pair of PP output tubes.
The only Ra curve needing to be drawn is the Ra line for one tube where Eg1 =
0V.
This curve is nearly approximately the same for
the curve shown for beam tetrode use with the value of screen voltage
chosen.
It is the curve through points OABC in this case, and is slightly
to the right of the same line for beam tetrode operation shown on the data
sheets for this tube.
The load lines and power outcomes shown here are are
also very similar to what could be obtained
with KT90 used in ultralinear
with about 38% screen taps on the OPT instead of the 12.5% cathode feedback used
to substantially linearize the the output stage operation.
Plate dissipation limits of 50 watts for KT90
also does not need to be displayed because we are considering
operation of
the KT90 at idle at less than half their Pda rating, and with ac operation the
tubes are never likely
to ever go near the rated Pda.
Three sets of loadlines are drawn on the same
graph for 3 different anode to anode loads of
13,200 ohms, 6,600 ohms,
and 3,300 ohms.
If the OPT for the pair of tubes had an impedance ratio
of 1,000 : 1, then the listed a-a loads
would mean that the secondary
loads would be 13.2 ohms, 6.6 ohms and 3.3 ohms respectively.
For best
fidelity where a huge maximum power level is likely then a high RLa-a is
required,
so an impedance ratio of 1,500:1 would be appropriate so that a
typical 2006 speaker load of 4 ohms
is reflected to the tubes as 6,000
ohms.
Drawing the
loadlines to find out operating conditions as follows:-
Consider the 6,600 ohm a-a loading.
1. Draw a
vertical line for Ea, ie, the dc voltage between anode and cathode in the
example above, Ea = +470V.
2. Divide
RLa-a by 4, so 6,600 / 4 = 1,650 ohms.
This is the load which ONE of the output tubes
will see when the other one has gone into cut off
during class AB or B
operation. It is what is called the class B load for the tube.
3. Find the maximum Ia if one of the two
tubes was turned on fully to become a complete short circuit.
So Ia max = Ea / class B RL ; in this case Ia max
= 470 / 1,650 = 284 mA.
Plot this value on the vertical Ia axis, see point
Y.
4. Draw a
line between Y and Ea=470V.
Now see where the line Y-to-Ea cuts the curve of
the anode curve for Eg1 = OV; in this case its at point B.
5. Drop a line from B to the Ea axis, and
read off the Ea value, in this case its +70V, and this is Ea minimum,
and the
point to which the anode swings negative from its idle value of Ea, +470V in
this case.
6. Subtract Ea minimum from Ea quiescent
to get the peak load voltage swing at one of the two anodes.
So Ea
swing = 470-70 = 400V peak.
To find the power that is produced by the two
tubes we need to know the total voltage applied across
the primary of the
OPT. The swing down on one anode is matched by a swing upwards on the other
anode.
7. Anode to anode swing = 2 x Ea swing of one
anode and in this case = 2 x 400 = 800 peak volts.
8. Multiply peak swing a-a x 0.707 to convert to
Vrms. 800 x 0.707 = 565.6 V.
Clipping occurs in class AB amps where the
voltage swing is limited by the Eg1 = 0V curve,
since going beyond that means
we are driving the output tubes into grid current, or class AB2,
which we are
not attempting to do in this case.
9. Maximum power output at clipping = V RL squared /
RL.
In this case PO = 565.6V x 565.6V / 6,600 ohms = 48
watts.
This is the class AB power maximum and is
the same maximum for any useful values of idle current
between class B and
class A.
The two tubes will operate at first in class A
before moving to class AB above a threshold determined by the idle
currents.
10. Draw point Q on the Ea line for idle.
In this case Iaq for one tube = 40mA, and Q is on the Ea = 470V vertical
line.
Draw a horizontal line of 2 x Ia, right across the page and so here we
have a line at 80mA.,
and it will intersect our load line for 1,650 ohms at
point E which is at Ea = +200V.
This point is where the increase in anode
current in one tube will in theory equal the reduction of current
in the
other tube, and class A operation is defined where equal Ia change in each +ve
and -ve direction occur.
Now while each tube works in class A, its load is
1/2 RLa-a, so in this case its 6,600 ohms / 2 = 3,300 ohms.
11. Calculate peak class A load current
that might occur if the tube was shorted and the load was the class A
load.
Ia class A peak I swing = Ea /
class A RL = 470V / 3,300 = 142 mA.
12. Add the quiescent Ia because the tube
already has Ia = 40mA.
Ia swing max + Ia q = 142 + 40 = 182mA.
Plot this
point on the vertical Ia axis. It will be at point K in this case.
13. Draw a line K to Q and on to the
horizontal Ea axis where Ia = 0mA, so that you will get point H at Ea =
600V.
This line is the 3,300 ohm class A load line for each of the push
pull tubes.
14. The class A power is determined by
class A swing from anode to anode.
Class A
peak swing, one anode = Eaq - Ea min for class A, = 470V - 200V =
270 peak volts.
Class A swing a-a = 2 x class A swing at one anode = 2 x 270V
= 540V peak.
Convert to Vrms, so Pk V x 0.707 , so 540V x 0.707 = 381.8
Vrms.
The anode to anode load will always remain the
same regardless of the class of working of the tubes.
The Class A PO
= 381.8 x 381.8 / 6,600ohms = 22 watts.
You can see that the line through points YEQH has
a kink at point E, and the load seen by one tube in
a PP amp isn't constant
load during each wave cycle above the class A power limit occurs when one of the
pair of tubes
has zero current, ie, tube cut off occurs.
This change of load during each wave cycle at
higher power levels above the class A power limit is the cause of a change of
tube voltage gain and accompanied by switching action which all makes odd number
harmonic products increase
more in class AB than in class A. Raising the idle
current will raise the class A swing so increase the % of class A power in the
total AB power, and keeping RL high will also place the % of class A power high,
as can be seen in the lines
for where 1/4 Rl a-a = 3,300 ohms, or RL a-a =
13,200 ohms.
In actual practice the sharply kinked character of the load line
for an individual tube in an AB amp
does not occur because the transition
from class A load to class B load is a swayed curve, so the
main distortion
product is mostly only 3H and a little 5H which is offset by increasing
transconductance ( gm ) for the tubes above the idle current.
The loads for each tube while in class A will be
slightly different because each tube cannot ever be exactly matched
in gm to
each other, and so one tube may see 6,800 ohms while the other sees 6,400 ohms
as a result.
This will lead to slightly different amounts of 2H distortion
currents in each output tube which then
cannot cancel each other fully, so
PP amps do often produce some 2H in their output distortions but it is
usually
very much less than that produced in single ended stages, and less
than the total amount of mainly 3H which all
PP amps produce.
The 3H
produced in class AB amps such as this one is the main harmonic product but it
is at a much lower level
than an SE amp's 2H rated for the same
power.
Triode operation in class AB is considered to be the best and most
acceptable by many because of the gradual cut off of current in the tubes by the
applied Eg1, voltage, so 3H is low in most class AB triode amps, with little
5H.
Pure tetrode AB amps have the worst PP amp character and are much
improved by the CFB connection
as in this amp or by means of ultra-linear
connection.
Note that the two KT90 in class AB1 produce as
much class A as a pair of 6L6 in pure class A, but more than twice the power in
AB1, and with their idle condition causing very low stress on the tube because
it is less than 1/2 the Pda rating
for the KT90 of about 50 watts.
KT88 and 6550 also offer a similar advantage over
the smaller tubes such as 6L6, 5881, 6CA7, EL34, KT66 etc,
and offer
superlative sonic performance with most modern speakers rated at 90dB/W/M,
although
to get the best sound the OPT must have a high ratio to account for
the tendency of modern speakers to have
dips in their impedance character of
down to 3 ohms.
For more ideas on load
matching and how tubes work go to my educational and DIY pages.
Regards from the maker,
Patrick
Turner.
Back to Index
Page