8585 for up to 3 pairs of
stacked Quad ESL57 speakers. October 2006.

Contents of this page:-
Picture above of the 8585 in 2004 which has changed little
since then.
Revised 2006 schematics for one channel of integrated 8585
currently using KT90EH to give lower THD.
The Schematics show arrangements for use with one to three pairs of
Quad ESL which have been fully
restored by
John Hall of Melbourne.
Fig 1, Schematic of one channel of 8585 amp,
2006, input and driver stages.
Fig 2, Schematic of one channel of 8585 amp,
2006, output stage.
Tube choices, local/global NFB, power output, output voltage levels,
THD, frequency response,
output resistance, input sensitivity, preamp, tube layout, fuses.
Fig3, schematic of the 8585
power supply, unchanged from the 2004 amp version.
List of fuses and their location, turn on delay, protection,
re-setting, leds at front,
bias adjustment, overheating, mains power consumption, weight.
General notes about power output, thd measurements, nfb and pp amps.
Fig
4, Graph for power output vs load for 4 x
KT90.
Fig 5, Graph
of harmonic content for middle
setting of volume
control.
Fig 6, Graph of harmonic content for maximum
volume control setting.
Fig 7, Graph of 3 THD curves
of 8585 THD for comparisons.
Fig
8, Graph
of harmonic content for 12AU7 input
preamp stage.
Fig 9, Schematic of 8585 amp as
supplied in 2004.
Fig 10, Graph of THD for
2004 version of 8585 with 4, 6 and 8 ohm loads.
Fig 11, Schematic of protection
circuit and explanation.
Fig 12, Graph for loadline
analysis for ONE pair of KT90 used with 12.5% CFB.
Step by step explanation of how to draw load lines.
Basics about negative feedback explained, push pull operation and
effect
on distortions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Use of the
8585 amp
without reading all these notes is possible but
YOU MUST READ
ABOUT THE BIAS ADJUSTMENT AND FAULT INDICATION
OR YOU WILL
HAVE UNWANTED INTERRUPTIONS TO YOUR MUSIC.
THE REMOVAL OF
THE BOTTOM COVER OR TOP TRANSFORMER
COVERS EXPOSES
ANY PERSON TO POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS
AND
LETHAL
VOLTAGES, SO PLEASE DON'T DO IT!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fig 1,

Fig 2,
8585
General Description.
The basic design of the push-pull 8585 was conceived in 1995, following
several years of trials with
various PP topologies to get the most accurate, dynamic, and
subjectively pleasing sound,
along with the best measurements possible with the least use of
corrective circuitry
known as global NFB.
The fundamental output stage circuit design of the 8585 is based on the
renowned
Acoustical Connection
of beam tetrodes invented about 60 years ago and incorporated in Quad
II amplifiers designed by Peter Walker and in the much later Quad 40
amps with a similar design by Andy Grove.
The quality of the 8585 output transformers surpasses anything built
for Quad amplifiers.
The October 2006 version 8585 is an integrated amplifier, with 6
switched line level inputs,
balance control, line level SET preamp amp, and volume control.
Tube
Choices
Incremental improvements since 1995 evolved the present fine sounding
amplifier.
There are presently ( October 2006 ) 4 x KT90 output tubes per channel,
but the circuit allows the use of all the main octal based output
tubes, such as 6V6, 6L6, 5881, EL34, 6CA7, KT66, KT88, KT90, and 6550.
However, only the 6L6GC, 5881, KT66, KT88, and KT90 are able to be
plugged in and biased to suit the existing circuit.
The use of 6V6, EL34 and 6CA7 are usable, but require minor
alteration to the circuit to ensure the correct grid bias voltage these
3 tube types and for 6V6 the
anode and screen supply must be re-wired to provide an anode supply of
no more than +350V
and a screen supply of about +300V.
Local
output stage cathode feedback and B+ Regulation.
The output stage for each channel has 4 output tubes, two for each side
of the push-pull circuit,
and these are configured to allow 12.5% of the anode to cathode signal
voltage to be fed back
locally to the output tube cathodes from a tertiary winding on the OPT.
With a 5 ohm load, the 12.5% of local NFB equates to about 7 dB of
local NFB.
The reason for applying two lots of negative feedback, one lot in the
form of local cathode FB in the output stage
and the other globally is because the local FB in the output stage has
a
very favourable effect on the spectral content
of distortion harmonics which are reduced to lower levels than triode
or ultralinear connection
but without paying a penalty of requiring too high a drive voltage to
the output stage tube grids.
Less global NFB is then required to make up a total of less than 20dB
and it is thus more possible to achieve without
requiring such critical stabilizing techniques.
If the output tubes were connected in pure beam tetrode mode the
harmonic spectra would remain more
complex and the amplifier would be more difficult to stabilise.
The anode supply is +500v using an 800 VA toroidal power transformer,
silicon diodes, and large value capacitors, and a choke filter.
The screen supply is +325v, and actively shunt regulated.
The output tubes have fixed grid bias voltage applied, once the level
of cathode current is adjusted, see below.
The output stage is driven by a "long tail pair" differential amp using
EL84/6BQ5 strapped as triodes and supplied with DC via a centre tapped
choke and with 8.2k from each end of the choke to the EL84 anodes.
(A choke is a winding of wire around special grain oriented silicon
steel, ( GOSS ) and it has high resistance to signal currents, but
allows direct current to flow easily).
The novel and little used choke loading method in all my PP amps
reduces dynamic signal current change in the EL84 to about 1/3 the
usual level with a pure resistance supplying dc to the tube and the
loads seen by the EL84 are mainly only the pair of 100k bias resistors
to each side of the PP circuit. Thus the EL84 are operating with a load
of about 25kohms,
well above what might otherwise be used in a power amp using such tubes
so
there is a very low level of harmonic and intermodulation distortion,
since the higher the load on triodes, measured in ohms, the lower the
thd becomes.
In this case, the choke was found to reduce thd about 3 times, or 10 dB,
compared to conventional circuits using cheaper dc carrying resistance
loads.
Global and
Local NFB
The input stage of the power amp is a 12AU7 with both halves paralleled.
The dc supply to this input stage is via a pair of 100k resistors in
parallel
which means that although the anode voltage change is up to about
7Vrms, there is
not a huge anode current change in the parallel triodes.
The 12AU7 is set up as a single ended triode and there is 12 dB of
"global" NFB from the output transformer secondary applied to the
cathode via a low resistance network.
At clipping the amp requires about 2Vrms applied to the 12AU7 input grid
and there is 1.5Vrms of fed back voltage applied at the cathode and
the difference between
the input voltage and fed back voltage is 0.5Vrms and this is amplified
to make up
to about 7Vrms to power the following Long Tail Pair driver stage ahead
of the output stage.
This basic method of globally applied NFB has been used for 60 years at
least,
and there is a total of 19dB of NFB applied consisting of 7dB of local
output stage NFB
which reduces the output impedance of the output tubes to about 2 ohms,
then there 12dB of global NFB reduces the 2 ohms down to about 0.4 ohms
which results in a damping factor of greater than 10 for a 5 ohm load.
The distortions in pure beam tetrode connected tubes is reduced by the
output stage NFB by about 12dB and then the global NFB further reduces
the distortions by another 12 dB.
Without connections of NFB the amplifier would be useless because the
output resistance
would be many times the speaker impedances and the distortions would be
both audible and objectionable.
Power
Output
The output power is 84 watts into 5 ohms at less than 0.3% thd which is
at the onset
of overload or clipping, and is class AB1 with approximately an initial
20 watts of pure class A.
There can be 57 watts watts into 8 ohms at less than 0.2% thd, class
AB1, with
the first 40 watts being pure class A.
Refer to graph BELOW for power output vs load to examine the maximum
power
output
levels possible.
Maximum
Vrms signal levels into loads with the 3 output terminals
strapped together are as follows:-
33 ohms, 18W, 24.4Vrms, 34.5 peak volts,
15 ohms, 32W, 22Vrms, 31.1Vpk,
8 ohms, 57W, 21.3Vrms, 30.2Vpk,
5 ohms, 84W, 20.5Vrms, 28.9Vpk,
2 ohms, 112W, 15Vrms, 21.21vpk,
Three pairs of Quad ESL will have an impedance varying from
11ohms at 60Hz to 0.6ohms at 18kHz.
This may seem like an impossible speaker impedance to drive but
90% of the power in music is within the 60Hz to 3kHz band where
Z is between 11 and 3 ohms, and only a tiny amount of power
is needed to produce frequencies above 3 kHz, and since the 8585 has
a power ability equal to 4 Quad II amplifiers in parallel and
considering that stacking
the Quads will increase their power sensitivity approximately 3dB, then
the
8585 will not have no more difficulty drive 3 pairs of ESL57 than a
single pair of Quad II amps
will have driving one pair of ESL57 which are regarded as a compatible
match of amp and
speaker since both were designed in the same era by the brilliant Peter
Walker.
Even with just a 0.6 ohm load there is 60 watts of power available from
the 8585
which means that the output current ability without clipping is about
10Arms, or 14 amps peak.
THD
At any load above 3 ohms,
1 watt of power, thd < 0.02%,
4 watts, thd < 0.03%,
16 watts, thd < 0.1%.
80 watts, 5 ohms, thd < 0.3%,
See the Graphs BELOW with following notes for Harmonic Products to view
levels of THD with 5 ohms.
Frequency
Response.
The frequency response for 1 kHz and 5 ohms is from 14 Hz to 65 kHz, at
80 watts, limited by saturation of the OPT at LF, and bandwidth
limiting at HF.
The response widens from about 5 Hz to 68 kHz at ordinary loud
listening levels.
With a test load comprising and RC series network of 0.5ohms in series
with 6 uF and with 5 ohms shunting the
RC network there is no peaking in the response.
Pure capacitance loads of any value between 6uF and 0.1 uF may be
connected
across the output terminals with the HF response showing less than 1dB
of peaking at 20kHz, and
not more than 6dB of peaking between 20kHz and 200kHz, so the amplifier
is stable
with any value of C load.
Tests were done on C loads at low output voltage levels of 1Vrms output
to ensure that the
diminishing impedance of C loads at HF did not cause the active
protection circuit to activate
because of excessive dc anode current draw from the power supply.
For example a 2uF capacitor has 2.48 ohms of purely reactive impedance
at 32kHz and
if the output voltage level was raised to equal that with 2.5 ohms of
pure resistance at
clipping at 1 kHz, the amp will shut down within a couple of
seconds.
Speaker
and Amplifier Output Impedance.
Any type of load is permissible, including dynamic, ribbon or ES
speakers,
and the amp will drive any load above 3 ohms for an average power level
of 5 watts,
which allows for peaks in the music to be 50 watts or more.
There are 3 pairs of output terminals arranged so there is 0.6 ohms
series resistance
from each output to the common internal connection at the amp so that
if 3 pairs of Quad ESL are connected with each pair taken to each pair
of output
terminals then each pair of speakers is fed via its own separate 0.6
ohm resistance.
The output source resistance in series with the ESL is thus the
amplifier Rout
of 0.4 ohms plus the 0.6 ohms giving a total of 1 ohm which is
recommended for Quad ESL57
in order to get a flat response to 20kHz.
The 8585 will thus mimic the action of the Quad II amp but give greater
stability
and lower distortions.
For normal speakers where the lowest amplifier resistance may be
desired, all three
active terminals to each channel may be strapped with a wire beneath
the 3 active binding
posts, and thus Rout = 0.4 ohms + 0.2 ohms = 0.6 ohms which
gives a damping factor of 10 with a 6 ohms speaker.
Sensitivity
With the volume control turned to the middle 12 o'clock position,
approximately
4.9Vrms is needed for clipping power of 80 watts into 5 ohms which will
produce
an ear deafening level of approximately 104dB SPL using 3 pairs of
stacked Quad ESL57
based on being able to obtain 86dB using 1 watt at one meter with one
ESL speaker from one channel.
At 80 watts the amp makes 20Vrms into 5 ohms and it does not exceed the
voltage rating for the speakers.
The level with 1Vrms of input which can be expected from a CD player
will reduce the output voltage to 4Vrms and a power output of 3.2 watts
per channel
which would give an SPL of 94dB with the 6 stacked Quad ESL.
The gain of the internal preamp has been reduced to only
2.6 times or 9dB between its input and output so that excessive gain
will not be a problem, yet there will always be a high enough power
ceiling, regardless of the speaker variety used.
The gain of the preamp was somewhat carefully chosen because there is no
ability to delete the preamp from the signal path.
In-built
Preamp
The 12AU7 integrated preamp ahead of each power amp uses both halves of
the twin triode paralleled, and there is an active constant
current source for the dc carrying load component
to reduce the THD to tiny amounts regardless of the input levels which
can be up
to 20Vrms before the preamp clips.
Even when the output level of the preamp is at 10Vrms with its input at
3.8vrms, THD < 0.3%,
and at normal levels where a CD player produces 1vrms on very high
level signals
the THD < 0.06%, and nearly all second harmonic and thus not in any
way
able to destroy the musical fidelity.
See the graph of THD for 8585 input preamp which shows
the 2H, 3H, 4H, 5H and 6H as they rise above the noise floor
between 0.4Vrms output and 10Vrms output.
The preamp has a mild 12dB amount of shunt NFB between its anode output
and grid input to ensure channel gain remains constant and well balanced
and to reduce THD and noise and Rout.
The input selector switch is a 2 pole x 6 position silver plated wafer
rotary switch
supplied by RS components, the balance control pot is a cermet type
from Farnell, and the gain control pot is a dual 50k stereo Alps
"Black" carbon track pot which has been used in numerous quality amps
for the last 30 years at least
and which is available at RS and Farnell Components.
Tube Layout
The four front tubes are 12AU7.
The next row of four tubes from the front are EL84 or 6BQ5, which are
exactly the same type
of tube, but with different commonly used type numbers.
The rear eight tubes are the eight matched octal output tubes.
Fuse
Replacement and Home
Service
The only fuse which should be
replaced by the owner is the 3 amp slow blow mains fuse
near the IEC
input mains chassis plug at the rear of the amp.
The amp must have the mains cable removed from the amp before fuse
replacement.
There are
other fuses within the amp and placed close to the appropriate
circuit point,
and none should be replaced by the non technically trained owner, and
without
a technician examining why the the fuse blew.
See the list of fuses below the power supply schematic, Fig3.
Fig 3 Power supply for 8585.

Fuse
locations and sizes
Mains fuse = 3A slow blow,
mounted in rear panel.
Anode dc supply fuses, two 1A slow blow, one 0.25A slow blow; access by
removing bottom cover.
Bias supply fuse, one 0.7A or 1A slow blow; access by removing middle
transformer cover on top of the amp.
Heater filament dc supply, two 3A slow blow; access by removing middle
transformer cover on top of the amp.
Turn on
delay
There is a short turn on delay of a few seconds, only to prevent
excessive input current
at the moment of switch on, and a relay click should be heard 4 seconds
after turn on.
Protection
The amp has active protection to prevent one or more of the output
tubes from
conducting more than 3 times the 33 mA of idle current for longer than
4 seconds.
If this ever occurs, a second relay in the power supply will turn off
the main
anode dc supply to the output tubes,
leaving the amp turned on with heaters
glowing,
but unable to make any sound.
Without any anode current the amp cannot overheat any part of itself
During this "fault" condition, the two red leds at the front of the amp
will glow
to indicate the fault condition.
Re-setting
the amp after tripping the protection during an accident such as
turning up the volume
with shorted speaker leads is achieved by waiting 20 seconds after
turning off the amp and
then turning it back on.
The leds
at the front also indicate the bias condition of the amp.
When the bias of each output tube is correctly adjusted, the two leds
will remain extinguished.
A small variation of bias balance between the two halves of the PP
circuit of each channel
will cause the leds to light up.
During normal operation, the leds should remain extinguished, but
during
extraordinarily loud music, the leds may flash at times due to some
temporary
bias current imbalance. Should noticeable distortion be heard, and
should the leds flash at
an unusually low gain setting, something is wrong with the speaker
leads, ie, they may be shorted together, or there may be a
fault within the amplifier.
A schematic of the protection circuitry is further down the page in Fig
11.
Biasing
The amp uses fixed bias. This is misleading, since if it was fixed, how
come
it has to be adjusted?
Well, once adjusted to the correct level, it remains fixed at the
adjusted level for
at least 3 months, and sometimes for many years without further
adjustment being required.
And there are 8 output tubes which EACH require separate adjustment.
All the 12AU7 and EL84 are automatically biased and need only be
checked during
a yearly routine check up.
Output Tube Bias
should be checked every 3 months by a prudent owner!!!
You will need a simple voltmeter and flat bladed screw driver
with a shaft at least 150mm long.
Bias adjustment can be done without moving the amp from the equipment
stand.
There are 4 test points on each side of the front panel, with each test
point corresponding to
an adjust screw on the top of the chassis nearby and corresponding to
each output
tube,
when viewed left to right.
Each test point is a recessed brass plated phillips head screw.
It is safe to perform the bias adjustment.
The positive red lead probe of the volt meter is held against the
recessed
phillips screw head and the negative black probe is
plugged into the hole for the black lead probe, or simply held against
the
chassis.
The long flat bladed screw driver is used to reach down through the
mesh tube cover to
turn the shafts of the 8 bias adjustments.
Do NOT attempt to turn the recessed phillips head screws; these are not
adjustment screws.
The voltmeter is set to a low range of direct voltage, say the 2v
range, and is used to measure the first test point's voltage and the
adjacent screw on top of the chassis adjusted in either
direction so the test voltage measures 0.7V dc.
Although slightly awkward, an untrained person may hold the test leads
of the
voltmeter with red lead to the test point, and the other hand can
adjust the appropriate screw.
Make sure that the red lead probe is not shorting the recessed contact
screw to the chassis.
When replacing a tube or all tubes, always check the bias quickly of
all tubes after turn on
and turn the bias voltage measure to lower than 0.7Vdc if any read
higher.
Allow the amp to warm its tubes for 5 minutes and then set the bias of
all 8 test points
slowly and accurately to 0.7V dc from 1 to 8.
After 10minutes, repeat the bias setting from 1 to 8 since the
adjustments
of one or more tubes will affect the setting of the remainder.
After 20 minutes, repeat the bias adjustment again.
Both the leds in the front panel should both remain extinguished, since
the balance in both
channels will be
correct because there is equal current in each tube.
If one of both the leds remains alight after the bias adjustment, you
have done it wrong,
and turned the wrong screw whilst measuring the wrong test point, or
you have a problem
in the amplifier.
When correct, *all* test points should each measure 0.7V dc between
test
point and chassis.
The relative rotation position of each adjust screw will be slightly
different with new tubes, and as the tubes age, the rotation
position will vary increasingly.
If it is impossible to obtain enough adjustment screw rotation to get a
0.7V dc reading for any output tube,
it is possible that this tube has a fault, and it may need
replacement.
Overheating?
The output tubes are those most likely to ever cause problems if
they overheat.
The output tubes run at about 150C temperature at the top of the
glass, and each output tube
has its filament power liberated as heat, about 10 watts, and its anode
power input
of about 18 watts, making a total of 28 watts.
An orange glow should be seen at the centre of the small innermost
cathode electrodes within the larger dark grey coloured
outer metal box anode electrode, seen easily just inside the glass
envelope.
This larger electrode within each tube should never appear to glow red
hot itself.
If it does glow, there is a fault in the tube operation, and a hand
held above the tube
will feel that it is running hotter than the tubes around it.
Such overheating should be reported to the maker, but the protection
circuit has been
designed to turn off the amp before the tube anode glows red hot due to
too much current flow.
Power
Consumption
Highest power consumption occurs when the tubes used are 6550 or
KT88
which have 1.8A rated filaments, and when the amp is working heavily
into classAB.
But the power consumption will vary very little during ordinary use
with average power below 5 watts.
Power consumption from the mains is as follows, with KT88/6550.
Output filaments, 8 x 6.3Vac x 1.8A = 91W.
Input 12AU7 filaments, 4 x 12.6Vdc x 0.15A = 8W.
Driver EL84/6BQ5 filaments, 4 x 6.3Vac x 0.8A = 20W.
B+ supply to anode supply, 510Vdc x 0.4A = 204W.
Bias voltage supply, -132Vdc x 0.020A = 3W.
Sub Total power = 326W. Allow winding losses of 6% plus
extra input power for AB operation with music up to occasional clipping
= additional 74 watts.
Total mains input power = 400W.
Heavy?
The amplifier need a sturdy support bench and should be handled and
moved only when turned off and with great care.
Never drop the amp to a hard surface because the weight of the
transformers
may deform the steel sheet metal cases or aluminium/brass chassis.
Due to the weight of tube amps, lifting them around can produce a back
ache if not done correctly.
Always call a friend to help you move
the 8585, I am sure he'll
enjoy
a listen afterwards.
GENERAL NOTES
ABOUT 8585 POWER
OUTPUT,
DISTORTION MEASUREMENTS, ACTIVE PROTECTION,
and some basic information on NFB and PUSH-PULL amp operation.
The available undistorted power power varies with load.
For the 8585 the recommended loading
for the frequencies between 100Hz and 800Hz should average 3 ohms or
more.
Fig 4.

The graph curve shows the power output at less than 1% THD for loads
between 0 ohms and 33 ohms.
Harmonic
Distortion products in the 8585.
There are 3 following graphs with comments regarding harmonic
distortion production.
While
both channels were tested, the results shown are for the right
channel only since the curves for each channel
were remarkably similar.
Fig 5.

Fig 5 shows the distortion components of 2H to 7H where relevant, ie,
as they increase with output voltage levels.
There is considerable 2H produced in comparison to the 3H at below 4
watts which would cover the
average listening levels of 99% of the population. The amount is all
less than 0.03%, and lower
than an SE amp, and utterly negligible.
Notice that the dreaded higher number 4H, 5H, 6H, and 7H harmonics do
not appear significantly until the amp is being worked above about 37
watts, or 13.5Vrms of output, where they try to rise above the 0.005%
level.
Fig 6.

Fig 6 shows the difference in harmonic products produced when the input
preamp
has its output minimised by turning up the volume control to maximum.
This gave less 3H and more 2H especially at high levels, and Fig 5
& 6 show the effects of 2H cancellations
when the preamp is used to produce more voltage before the volume
control attenuation.
I first thought perhaps the preamp 2H would add to the power amp 2H
produced in the
V2 12AU7 but this appears not to be the case, so the 2H is otherwise
being produced in the power amp
to what i expected.
The point is that the 2H is a small amount of 2H for any tube amp.
In PP amps the 3H is usually the most dominant but in this design of PP
amp the 3H
is very low compared to many other designs using such low bias
levels.
Being able to obtain less than 0.014% of 3H at 4 watts is a good result
for any tube power amp,
and regardless of the volume control setting.
In both Fig 5 & 6 the higher order harmonics are negligible at
ordinary very
loud levels.
Fig 7.

Fig 7 has 3 curves drawn above for THD for the 8585 with KT90
output tubes and biased lightly with Ia at only 33mA per tube. Curve A
& B were plotted in 2006 after changing from the 2004 schematic for
the input preamp.
Curve C is derived from the 2004 measurements for 4,6,8 ohms in Fig 10
below, and for a 5 ohm load
and with volume control at maximum to ensure the input preamp creates
the least THD possible.
Curve A is for the 2006 above amp schematic and with the volume control
set at the middle position.
This means that any incoming signal is amplified 2.6 times, then
reduced in level by a factor of 0.156
times by the volume potentiometer.
The curve A was plotted by varying the input signal at 1 kHz
until the amplifier clipped at just over 20Vrms into 5 ohms.
Curve B was plotted with the same increasing input signal but
with the volume control set to the
maximum level so to reduce the amount of amplification by the V1 12AU7
preamp
and negate its probable effect on the thd measurements.
Notice that there is a difference between thd levels of curve A
and B and it is due largely to
cancellation effects of the second harmonic distortions produced in the
preamp and power amp.
Curve C is taken from measurements made on the older schematic
presented in 2004.
There is not a huge difference between any of the curves, but
there is a consistent
reduction of THD of at least 6dB between the 2004 and 2006 versions of
the amp,
ie, between the curve C and A respectively.
This is mainly due to a reduction of 2H in the V1 12AU7 preamp by using
a CCS load for the anodes
and due to 12dB of shunt NFB to reduce the 12AU7 gain.
The older 2004 preamp relied only upon about 4dB of current NFB from
the unbypassed 1.5k cathode
R of the V1 12AU7.
At low levels the reduction in distortion due to a large increase in
NFB does not
result in an exactly proportionate THD reduction when the preamp is
tested with the power amp.
Fig 8.

Fig 8 shows the THD result for the V1 12AU7 triode line level
preamp built into the 8585.
I measured the harmonics up to 10vrms output only because when testing
high output resistance
circuits above 600 ohms my test gear has to use a high input impedance
low distortion buffer between the device under test
and the analyser whose maximum input voltage is limited to 10Vrms.
There is no point in measuring output voltages above 10Vrms
because it is extremely
unlikely the input preamp would ever have to produce more than this
voltage level.
It is of course capable of about 60Vrms of output.
As can be seen the THD at 2.6 Vrms of anode output which would be a
high level from a CD player input signal,
THD = 0.04%, and mainly 2H with ALL other harmonics below the noise
floor.
There are those who despise and discourage the use of NFB to reduce
noise, output resistance
and distortion on the grounds that a small amount of it such as I have
used around this preamp
will significantly raise the higher order harmonic products above the
2H to become a serious sonic pest.
There is NO evidence that they are correct. I am convinced that 3H or
other harmonics
all at below the 0.001% level do not
have any effect on the sound quality at all.
Tubes do have some magic though, and it isn't spoiled by the presence
of excessive distortion!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The older 2004 schematic for one channel of the 8585 amp is included
here as Fig 9 for reference.
Part numbers used in Fig 9 have no similarity to numbers used in Fig 1
and Fig 2 above.
Fig 9.

Fig 9 above is the 2004 schematic of the
8585 for the record
Fig 10.
Fig 10 is the THD measured in 2004 with the 2004 schematic of Fig 9.
Notice that even without the improvements to the input preamp section
of the amp the THD
is below 0.1% for any load above 4 ohms and any power below 30 watts.
The further analysis of the THD spectra in 2006 in Figs 6 & 7 shows
that there are very small
and insignificant amounts of high numbered harmonic content above 3H.
The thd measurements were taken
with Ia = 40mA at idle per
each
output tube.
Should the bias Ia be increased to 60mA, the thd into 4 ohms which is
the worst would be reduced from 0.04%
at 4 watts to 0.03%. The best fidelity is gained by using
loads above 4 ohms.
It is thought that this reduction of thd by biasing more heavily
into class A would not be audible,
and not worth the cost of wearing out the tubes sooner, and dissipating
an extra 76 watts of heat within the amplifier.
The 2006 version of the amp measures better than the 2004 curves
indicate yet the idle bias current levels are
slightly lower than the 2004 levels.
Protection
circuit.
Fig 11

Fig 11 shows the schematic on a
circuit board under the chassis about 150mm x 100mm with the
above circuit to be able to make this amp well behaved.
Signals from each output tube cathode
of L and R channels are fed to a pair of
differential amps.
The K1, K2, and K3, K4 signals are from of each side of the PP
circuit.
Considering K1, K2, Left channel,
the two cathode signals are applied through R1, D1, and R2, D2 to
then be applied through 4k7 R3
and to the base of Q1.
A 100uF cap filters out nearly all the ac signal from the cathodes, and
only the dc signal is applied to the Q1/Q2 differential amplifiers.
The highest dc signal from K1/K2 is what determines the dcV at the
Q1/Q2 bases.
When all bias currents are correctly adjusted in each output tube, the
dc voltages at Q1/Q2 bases will be very close to equal but should one
tube vary its current by more than
about +/- 10mA, there will be a dc change to Q1/Q2 inputs, and this
will be amplified to produce a difference in collector
voltages, and thus turn on the led through D4 to D7 diodes.
This will tell an owner immediately if there is a bias problem.
Diodes D3, D9, Q14, D20 from each of
the base inputs of all 4 bjts
Q1 to Q4 are taken to a common rail
which detects the highest dcV being applied to any base input.
The voltage on this rail is applied to Q7 emitter follower buffer base
through R22.
Should the output of Q7 emitter rise to cause more than 0.8Vdc at the
SCR gate, it will latch on and
the protection relay will open to cut the HT on the power transformer.
Turning the amp off then on after 20
seconds will reset the amp, but
if the problem causing the excess cathode current
re-appears, then the HT will be shut down again.
With the shut down, both leds are turned on through D8 and D19.
Q5 and Q6 act in a 4 second delay
circuit to shunt R41 on the power
supply schematic which limits the current input to the main B+ caps at
turn on. after 4 seconds the surge
in charge currents when the relay closes to bring the B+ up to its
maximum is slightly less than the initial surge.
This allows a more sensitive mains
fuse to be used.
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Negative
Feedback explained, NFB
Negative feedback occurs in many systems employed by men and women in
their daily lives.
There is even NFB used in principle in the toilet. Every time you flush
the loo,
the water empties from the small tank on the wall, and the water then
begins to flow back into the tank to refill it.
There is a float in the tank which sends a message via a lever to the
valve controlling the input flow of water.
When the water level raises the float, the lever sends a message to the
valve to turn off the water, and the level of the water is cut off.
Thermostats for air-conditioning work in the same way; a temperature
sensitive device
reads the temperature, and if too cool it turns the heater on, and too
hot
it turns on a cooler.
The message from float lever or thermostat is called feedback, and
negative feedback is where that fed back message is applied in a way
which opposes the action of the input message to which is it compared.
With all audio amps, there is always a slight error signal created by
the action of the
electronics. Nothing is perfect.
All amplifiers have two available input ports to which signals may be
applied to cause a
signal change at the ONE output terminal.
nearly all amplifiers have what is called a "global negative feedback
network"
which usually consists of a simple pair of resistors.
Such a "resistance dividing circuit" creates a fixed fraction of the
output voltage and
allows it to be compared electronically with a similar level of input
voltage at the front end of an amp, and then the difference between the
two voltages is amplified by the rest of the amplifier.
At clipping levels in the 8585, there is 2Vrms applied to the power amp
input grid port
at V2, the power amp input 12AU7.
1.5Vrms of negative feedback signal is derived from the 20Vrms output
signal via a 680 ohms plus 50 ohm resistance divider and applied to the
V2 12AU7 cathode.
Both signals are the same phase, ie, both travel positively and
negatively but they are merely slightly different amplitudes, but have
opposite effects on the
output voltage of the amp.
A +ve going signal at the grid causes a +ve going signal at the output,
but a +ve
going signal at the cathode causes a -ve going signal at the output.
Thus the grid input is called the non-inverting input, and the cathode
is called the
inverting input.
So the difference between input and feedback voltage is 0.5Vrms,
and since the 8585 has a voltage gain = 40, the 0.5vrms is amplified to
make the
20Vrms we see at the output.
But the fed back voltage is a fraction of the output voltage = 1.5 / 20
= 0.075,
so where a distortion voltage at the output occurs of say DVrms, it is
divided down
to 0.075Dvrms and applied to the 12AU7 cathode and this is amplified
MINUS 40 times because of the inversion effect.
Now -40 x 0.075DVrms = -3.0Vrms.
But we KNOW there is only +1Vrms of distortion at the output; it is
what we would measure, so how come there is also -3Vrms also present by
the above reasoning??????
It is because that without any NFB applied, ie, the feedback loop is
removed,
only 0.5vrms need be applied to the grid to get 20Vrms at the output
PLUS 4Vrms of distortion.
So with the NFB loop connected, the -3DVrms subtracts from the +4DVrms
to leave just 1DVrms present with the NFB connected.
The VOLTAGE gain without NFB is called the "open loop gain " and in the
8585 = 20V / 0.5V = +40, and with NFB connected the VOLTAGE gain is
called the "closed loop gain"
and = 20V / 2.0V = 10.
This difference between the input signal from a CD player and the
signal fed back is called the "error signal" because it contains an
amplified version of the error signal which is 180 degrees out of phase
with the error signal naturally created by the
amplifier when it has no NFB circuit included.
The "error" within the error signal is a self opposing signal which may
correct an unflat F response, reduce output resistance, reduce phase
shift,
or reduces noise within the elements in the amp enclosed by the loop of
NFB.
The arrangement acts simultaneously around the circuit except at
extremes of
frequencies outside the audio band, ie, below 10Hz and above 20kHz.
The reason why its called negative feedback doesn't mean its bad
feedback.
It means a negatively phased signal is created in the amp to cancel the
positively phased distortion signals that occur without any such
NFB loops connected.
It used to be called "inverse" feedback.
There is both positive and negative feedback and current or voltage
feedback.
And books have been written about it, and deeper explanation won't fit
into this very
brief description.
Push Pull
action and Distortion
Push Pull amps have inherently low distortion even without any use of
NFB at all.
If one imagines two men each side of a log trying to cut it in half
with a long bush saw,
their motion is smooth and regular with one man pulling, and the other
pushing
the saw, and the individual motional irregularities of one man is
cancelled by the other man's
similar irregularities.
One man using the saw will tend to pull the saw with more force than he
can push it,
so the cutting power delivered to the log is uneven for each half of
the cutting cycle.
This is like the second harmonic distortion in electronic sine
waves where the top
half of a sine wave has a different amplitude or height than the bottom
half with respect to the centre point about which the wave moves.
The irregularities of the two men's combined action when cutting tends
to give equal
power reductions at the end of the saw's motion, so it is as if
there is a flattening of each +ve and -ve peak of the sine wave, and
this is akin to
third harmonic distortion in an electronic sine wave.
The power in a push-pull circuit is liberated into the load in two ways
simultaneously.
Power liberated in a load resistance = load voltage change x load
current change.
The power liberated is mainly heat, but about 3% of the power is
liberated as
audio energy into the air of the room, and that energy is converted to
heat
as it is absorbed by furnishings etc.
The efficiency of most audio speakers is appallingly low, but not
much
acoustic energy is required for our hearing which is very efficient.
The use of horn speakers can increase speaker efficiency to perhaps 40%,
but most speakers give less than 4%.
Consider a class A push-pull circuit using just two tubes.
In one output tube, when it is "pulling", there is increasing or
positive current flow change
and negative going voltage to one input of the push pull output
transformer,
and the product of the two changes makes one contribution of watts to
the total output power.
Meanwhile the other output tube "pushes" and has reducing or negative
current change and positive going voltage at its input of the OPT, and
the product of these changes make an
equal contribution to the total output power.
The two actions of "push" and "pull" occur exactly simultaneously,
and the resulting distortion is very low due to cancellation of
oppositely phased even numbered distortion currents in each tube.
The two halves swap push and pull roles as the signal swings positively
and negatively
each side of zero volts.
This principle has been used since about 1910, and it confuses all non
technical people, although two kids on a see-saw are using the
principles of push pull action without knowing what it is, at least
until they grow up and study physics.
The complementary contribution to the output power is enabled by the
push pull
output transformer designed to take the oppositely phased signals from
two tubes,
wheras the SE OPT is designed to accept only one signal from one tube
with only one phase of signal.
The driver stage of the 8585 has very low distortion, and the two input
SET stages also
are set up for best linearity, and contribute a negligible amount of
even order
thd, thus allowing the low measureable thd seen in these amps, without
using a high amount of NFB.
Loadline analysis for one pair
push-pull KT90 with
12.5% CFB.
Fig 12.

This maze of lines and curves is not
a determined attempt to confuse
everyone!
But any novice will be challenged so I suggest those should read the
basics in the
Radiotron Designer's Handbook, 4th Ed, 1955, but I have provided a step
by step
explantation for this example below .
All the tube characteristic dynamic
anode resistance ( Ra ) data
curve lines for each and every value of Eg do not need to be displayed
to find the limits of power produced by a pair of PP output tubes. The
only Ra curve needing to be drawn is the Ra line for
one tube where Eg1 = 0V.
This curve is nearly approximately
the same for the curve shown for
beam tetrode use with the value of screen voltage
chosen.
It is the curve through points OABC in this case, and is slightly to
the right of the same line
for beam tetrode operation shown on the data sheets for this tube.
The load lines and power outcomes shown here are are also very similar
to what could be obtained
with KT90 used in ultralinear with about 38% screen taps on the OPT
instead of the 12.5% cathode feedback used to substantially linearize
the the output stage operation.
Plate dissipation limits of 50 watts
for KT90 also does not need to
be displayed because we are considering
operation of the KT90 at idle at less than half their Pda rating, and
with ac operation the tubes are never likely
to ever go near the rated Pda.
Three sets of loadlines are drawn on
the same graph for 3 different
anode to anode loads of
13,200 ohms, 6,600 ohms, and 3,300 ohms.
If the OPT for the pair of tubes had an impedance ratio of
1,000 : 1, then the listed a-a loads
would mean that the secondary loads would be 13.2 ohms, 6.6 ohms and
3.3 ohms respectively.
For best fidelity where a huge maximum power level is likely then a
high RLa-a is required,
so an impedance ratio of 1,500:1 would be appropriate so that a typical
2006 speaker load of 4 ohms
is reflected to the tubes as 6,000 ohms.
Drawing
the loadlines to find out
operating conditions as follows:-
Consider the 6,600 ohm a-a loading.
1.
Draw a vertical line for
Ea, ie, the dc voltage between anode and
cathode in the example above, Ea = +470V.
2.
Divide RLa-a by 4, so 6,600
/ 4 = 1,650 ohms.
This is the load which ONE of the
output tubes will see when the
other one
has gone into cut off
during class AB or B operation. It is what is called the class B load
for the tube.
3.
Find the maximum Ia if one of the two tubes was turned on fully
to become a complete short circuit.
So Ia max = Ea / class B RL ;
in this case Ia max = 470 / 1,650 = 284 mA.
Plot this value on the vertical Ia axis, see point Y.
4.
Draw a line between Y and
Ea=470V.
Now see where the line Y-to-Ea cuts the curve of the anode curve for
Eg1
= OV; in this case its at point B.
5.
Drop a line
from
B to the Ea axis, and read off the Ea value, in this
case its +70V, and this is Ea minimum,
and the point to which the anode swings negative from its idle value of
Ea, +470V in this case.
6.
Subtract Ea
minimum from Ea quiescent to get the peak load voltage
swing at one of the two anodes.
So Ea swing = 470-70 = 400V peak.
To find the power that is produced by
the two tubes we need to know
the total voltage applied across
the primary of the OPT. The swing down on one anode is matched by a
swing upwards on the other anode.
7. Anode to anode swing = 2 x Ea swing of one
anode and in this
case = 2 x 400 = 800 peak volts.
8.
Multiply peak swing a-a x 0.707 to
convert
to Vrms. 800 x 0.707 =
565.6 V.
Clipping occurs in class AB amps
where the voltage swing is limited
by the Eg1 = 0V curve,
since going beyond that means we are driving the output tubes into grid
current, or class AB2,
which we are not attempting to do in this case.
9.
Maximum power output at clipping = V
RL
squared / RL.
In this case PO = 565.6V x 565.6V / 6,600 ohms = 48 watts.
This is the class AB power maximum
and is the same maximum for
any useful values of idle current
between class B and class A.
The two tubes will operate at first
in class A before moving to
class AB above a threshold determined by the idle currents.
10.
Draw point Q
on the Ea line for idle. In this case Iaq for one tube
= 40mA, and Q is on the Ea = 470V vertical line.
Draw a horizontal line of 2 x Ia, right across the page and so here we
have a line at 80mA.,
and it will intersect our load line for 1,650 ohms at point E which is
at Ea = +200V.
This point is where the increase in anode current in one tube will in
theory equal the reduction of current
in the other tube, and class A operation is defined where equal Ia
change in each +ve and -ve direction occur.
Now while each tube works in class A,
its load is 1/2 RLa-a, so in
this
case its 6,600 ohms / 2 = 3,300 ohms.
11. Calculate peak
class A load current that might occur if the tube was
shorted and the load was the class A load.
Ia class A peak I swing = Ea /
class A RL = 470V / 3,300 = 142 mA.
12.
Add the
quiescent Ia because the tube already has Ia = 40mA.
Ia swing max + Ia q = 142 + 40 = 182mA.
Plot this point on the vertical Ia axis. It will be at point K in this
case.
13.
Draw a line K
to
Q and on to the horizontal Ea axis where Ia = 0mA, so
that you will get point H at Ea = 600V.
This line is the 3,300 ohm class A load line for each of the push
pull tubes.
14.
The class A
power is determined by class A swing from anode to anode.
Class A peak swing, one anode = Eaq -
Ea min for class A, = 470V - 200V
= 270 peak volts.
Class A swing a-a = 2 x class A swing at one anode = 2 x 270V = 540V
peak.
Convert to Vrms, so Pk V x 0.707 , so 540V x 0.707 = 381.8 Vrms.
The anode to anode load will always
remain the same regardless of
the class of working of the tubes.
The Class A PO = 381.8 x 381.8 / 6,600ohms = 22 watts.
You can see that the line through
points YEQH has a kink at point E,
and the load seen by one tube in
a PP amp isn't constant load during each wave cycle above the class A
power limit occurs when one of the pair of tubes
has zero current, ie, tube cut off occurs.
This change of load during each wave
cycle at higher power levels
above the class A power limit is the cause of a change of tube voltage
gain and
accompanied by switching action which all makes odd number harmonic
products increase
more in class AB than in class A. Raising the idle current will raise
the class A swing so increase the % of class A power in the total AB
power, and keeping RL high will also place the % of class A power high,
as can be seen in the lines
for where 1/4 Rl a-a = 3,300 ohms, or RL a-a = 13,200 ohms.
In actual practice the sharply kinked character of the load line for an
individual tube in an AB amp
does not occur because the transition from class A load to class B load
is
a swayed curve, so the
main distortion product is mostly only 3H and a little 5H which is
offset by
increasing
transconductance ( gm ) for the tubes above the idle current.
The loads for each tube while in
class A will be slightly different
because each tube cannot ever be exactly matched
in gm to each other, and so one tube may see 6,800 ohms while the other
sees 6,400 ohms as a result.
This will lead to slightly different amounts of 2H distortion currents
in each output tube which then
cannot cancel each other fully, so PP amps do often produce some 2H in
their output distortions but it is usually
very much less than that produced in single ended stages, and less than
the total amount of mainly 3H which all
PP amps produce.
The 3H produced in class AB amps such as this one is the main harmonic
product but it is at a much lower level
than an SE amp's 2H rated for the same power.
Triode operation in class AB is considered to be the best and most
acceptable by
many because of the gradual cut off of current in the tubes by the
applied Eg1, voltage, so 3H is low in most class AB triode amps, with
little 5H.
Pure tetrode AB amps have the worst PP amp character and are much
improved by the CFB connection
as in this amp or by means of ultra-linear connection.
Note that the two KT90 in class AB1
produce as much class A as a
pair of 6L6 in pure class A, but more than twice the power in AB1, and
with their idle condition causing very low stress on the tube because
it is less than 1/2 the Pda rating
for the KT90 of about 50 watts.
KT88 and 6550 also offer a similar
advantage over the smaller tubes
such as 6L6, 5881, 6CA7, EL34, KT66 etc,
and offer superlative sonic performance with most modern speakers rated
at 90dB/W/M, although
to get the best sound the OPT must have a high ratio to account for the
tendency of modern speakers to have
dips in their impedance character of down to 3 ohms.
For more ideas on load matching
and how tubes work go to my
educational and DIY pages.
Regards from the maker,
Patrick Turner.
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